“Have you seen the fucking pictures I’ve done? They’re all about my breasts. That’s just not who I am, and it makes me feel kind of…dirty.”

MICHELLE WILLIAMS
By Eric Gladstone

Michelle Williams does not want to talk about sex. Despite the fact that she is most identified for playing the highly sexualized Jen Lindley on “Dawson’s Creek,” that she disrobed night after night on a New York stage last year, and that she features in a steamy love scene in HBO’s lesbian-themed “If These Walls Could Talk 2,” the teen actress thinks being a sex symbol is not much of an aspiration. “Sex symbol, sex pot,” she spits out. “That’s worthless to me, that’s gutter filth.”

Instead, like another misunderstood blonde before her—Marilyn Monroe—Michelle is more interested in books. Browsing the hushed hallways of Los Angeles’ Heritage Bookshop, a dealer of rare volumes she visits frequently, Williams takes stock of some of her favorite authors. She looks at a Thomas Pynchon, considers Phillip Roth, Upton Sinclair and J.D. Salinger, and asks about Dostoyevsky. And, as if to prove she isn’t just a literary tourist, notes in passing that she “can’t get through Faulkner” and doesn’t like Hemingway. You wouldn’t have an easy time finding a 19 year old so well read, especially one who’s had practically no formal schooling since the ninth grade. Finally, she settles on a first edition Tennessee Williams collection (containing a favorite play, “This Property Is Condemned”). It sets her back nearly $300.

Michelle has been collecting such editions since she “all of a sudden had the money,” thanks to the success of “Dawson’s Creek” three years ago. Her prized possessions are a rare copy of Ibsen’s “The Doll’s House” and an antique set of Shakespeare in its raw state. “Some are so old, like the Shakespeare, that you can’t really read them,” she explains dreamily. “But I touch them. And I smell them. And I run my hands over them. And I have an affair with them,” she chuckles. “It’s about as interesting as my sex life gets.”

That seems hard to believe, not so much because of her steady relationship with indie director Morgan J. Freeman (Hurricane Streets, Desert Blue), but for the free-spirited sensuality the actress exudes as “Linda” in the “1972” segment of “If These Walls Could Talk 2.” In the most erotically-charged of the three lesbian-themed tales, Michelle’s feminist bra-burning character falls for a politically incorrect butch dyke played by Chloe Sevigny, who seduces her in a revealing nude scene.

“It’s a really vulnerable place to be” Michelle says, of shooting the explicit scene. “But I’m also really glad that my first love scene was with a woman. It was a really natural process.”

How natural was it? Well, ask the actress what kissing Sevigny felt like and she exclaims, “Have you seen her? She’s fucking hot!” But Michelle backtracks when asked if that lifestyle interests her.

“I think that everybody is probably curious by nature,” she responds coyly, realizing that we are, yes, talking about sex–something she doesn’t want to do, “without a cigarette,” at least.

Later, lighting an American Spirit outside a nearby hotel, she continues: “It just seems completely irrelevant to me, because it doesn’t make me any more or less qualified to play a lesbian.” And, she emphasizes, the tele-film “isn’t about a love scene, it’s about love.”

“It was a brave scene for them,” says Martha Coolidge, director of the segment. “[Michelle had] a tremendous commitment to what the movie was about. She really believed in the sort of humanist anti-discrimination idea behind the whole project.”

Continued at Pt. 2

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MICHELLE WILLIAMS
By Eric Gladstone

Still, Williams admits that she probably didn’t weigh the scene as heavily as she should have. “Having just done nudity on stage [in the off-Broadway play “Killer Joe”], I was sort of fearless about it and felt brazen and you know, liberated. Which may have been a dangerous way to feel, because the beauty of theatre is that you create and recreate each night. There’s no rewind button.”

Michelle is a bit fed up with the contradictions in how the media portray teen sexuality. On the one hand, she figures “kids are always going to have sex, and that’s not a bad thing. I wish that there wasn’t such a stigma attached that made girls feel like sluts and whores, because it’s [part of] growing up.”

On the other hand, she has misgivings about many of the revealing photo shoots she’s participated in. “Have you seen the fucking pictures I’ve done?” she rants. “They’re all about my breasts. That’s just not who I am, and it makes me feel kind of…dirty.” It also made her feel like giving her then-publicist the boot. “I didn’t want teen girls or my little sister thinking that that’s a woman’s power, that’s how girls should look.

Williams is confident that her little sister Page, 16, will support her latest performance, as will her mom. Boyfriend Freeman, 30, approves, but Michelle confides, “the thought of somebody else touching your lover’s body or knowing things only you should know, is a really tricky thing.” And Dad?
“I’m not sure what my dad’s going to think.”

By her own account, Michelle’s relationship with both parents has been tumultuous. Larry and Carla Williams raised Michelle and Page (she also has a half-brother and two half-sisters, all older, from Larry’s previous marriage) in tiny Kalispell, Montana. Michelle describes it as “a really small, beautiful, but at the same time industrial dirty town.” As a kid, she was an outdoorsy tomboy, skiing with her uncle at the age of six, riding jet skis on a nearby lake with neighbors, and bonding with Dad over boxing matches on TV.

“He was pretty much my best friend growing up,” says Michelle of Larry, a commodities trader and ‘round-the-world “treasure hunter” who also ran two unsuccessful campaigns for the US Senate as a Republican. “He taught me to read and love books and to love travel, and be independent.” Michelle’s relationship with Carla was not so great, especially after the family relocated to San Diego when she was nine. “I was rebellious and rude, and disrespectful of her.” Perhaps ironically, Michelle says her relationship with mom has improved greatly over the past year, while she glosses over her current status with dad; Mr. and Mrs. Williams are currently going through a divorce.

“I can’t really remember not wanting to act,” she recalls. “The opportunity to do plays was given to me at a really early age, and I never really wanted to be without it.” Thus, after her freshman year of high school, Michelle opted to finish via correspondence classes, completing three years’ requirements in the space of one. And at 15, against objections, she moved to L.A. with an eye on the silver screen. Soon after, she also legally emancipated from her parents because it made getting roles easier, “and because I was rebellious.”

Continued at Pt.3

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MICHELLE WILLIAMS
By Eric Gladstone

“Moving to L.A., I don’t know if I would’ve had the guts to do it now as opposed to when I was 15, and was fearless. In a lot of senses I wasn’t [ready for it].” Nor, even after spots on “Baywatch” and “Home Improvement,” and film roles in Timemaster, Species, and a remake of Lassie (all of which she is neither ashamed, nor particularly proud), was she ready for the instant notoriety that came with hit TV show, “Dawson’s Creek.”

“It was just really overwhelming,” says Michelle of the first flush of success. “There were so many things I didn’t expect or understand.”

She visibly brightens at the thought of describing her short life in literary examples. But her answers are also telling: after “The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe,’ for her childhood and Judy Blume books for her pre-teen years, she chooses Dostoyevsky’s “Notes From Underground” Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged,” and Herman Hesse for the last several years—not exactly light reading. For recent months, she picks the poetic erotica of Anais Nin.

Right now, though, sitting in a booth at the historic and newly-hip Hollywood haunt Musso and Frank’s Grill, Michelle seems like she jumped right out of the pages of Salinger. Far away from both her teen fans and detractors (like the creators of the “I Hate Jen” website), she tucks her knees up against her in the leatherette and wood booth, taking nibbles of a grilled cheese sandwich and sips of tomato soup between thoughts. She laughs at the thought of any special diet or work out regime (“I smoke a lot and I hear that keeps the weight down,” she cracks), but also admits sullenly that she isn’t a bit comfortable with her body. “Not at all,” she whispers

“I keep having dreams about having a disability. I had a dream the other night that my arm was just a stump from here, and my leg ended just below my knee. I keep having dreams about it, that I’m missing something.”

Williams is loathe to criticize “Dawson’s,” now in its third season, but admits her steady job is “like punching in a time card.” She is also feeling the constraints of being under a six-year contract. “I can’t really imagine doing another TV show after this.

“What if I decide that I want to be a school teacher [one of her half-sisters’ profession] what if I said I wanted to move to Paris and study art, or if I’d want to become a truck driver? Maybe I will want to go to college.”

Still she paints an enviable picture of her home life in the tiny island village of Wrightsville, ten minutes from Wilmington, North Carolina where “Dawson’s” shoots.

“I went to a psychic yesterday, somebody who came highly, highly recommended. And she said, ‘you live in a warm place, it’s so full of light.’” While Michelle doesn’t know how many of the psychic’s predictions to take seriously (including getting a dog and “one or more” children), she speaks devotedly of her small beach house.

Continued at Pt. 4

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MICHELLE WILLIAMS
By Eric Gladstone

“I worked hard to make it mine,” she says, having painted walls, hung lighting, replaced doorknobs and handles and filling it with secondhand furniture, an oil can collection, an etching of a saint she found by the roadside, and of course, those books. Michelle fills her downtime with more than reading, though—she hosts a weekly poker game, typically attended by cast members Kerr Smith (“Jack”) and Josh Jackson (“Pacey”) as well as Morgan. Then there’s jet skiing, the occasional karaoke performance, and believe it or not, watching presidential debates.

“This is my first year being able to vote and I’m just fucking thrilled. I’ve been paying taxes since I was fifteen and always been really upset about the fact that I couldn’t vote.

“I have a really hard time relaxing,” Michelle confides. “And I just kind of feel unsettled, or in limbo. I always had a real need to just be older than I was, and to grow up quickly. I was really intent about those things, and I would get them soon. I love children,” she says, musing on the psychic’s prediction “I love the way their perception is still their own.

“But now I’m just happy to be nineteen. Just figuring out what I’m going to do, with the rest of my life, to an extent.” For now, there is hiatus work. Following parts in Halloween H2O, Dick, “Killer Joe” and “Walls,” she’s looking forward to joining the revolving New York cast of the stage production “The Vagina Monologues” this spring, and making Don’t Blink, a film about three girls who meet in a Nevada brothel, which she and fellow actresses Meghan Perry and Amy Danles wrote for themselves. It’s hard not to see a pattern of roles increasingly defined by, umm…sexuality.

“My therapist know that sex defines a lot of my roles,” says Michelle with a confessional smile. “We’re very, very aware of this. I know all about why, where it stems from. I know.”

Not that she wants to talk about it.

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Copyright 2000, 2009 ECG

“Doors kept opening and I just kept walking through them”

Heath Ledger Interview
By EC Gladstone

Heath Ledger is the picture of calm. Strolling into a suite at the Beverly Hills Four Seasons Hotel, the 21-year-old actor, wearing a Hawaiian shirt, jeans and sandals, looks tanned, rested, and ready. You would have no idea looking at him that he is at the center of a whirlwind. Having just flown in from the Prague set of Brian Helgeland’s A Knight’s Tale, Ledger will scale a mountain of publicity for his new film The Patriot (he costars with Mel Gibson) in LA and in New York, before returning to the four-month long film shoot, which has shut down production just so he can be here.

Ledger is being called a new Mel Gibson, and meeting him in person, it’s not hard to see why. The tall, curly blond haired Australian actor shares a steel gaze and a strong jaw with the box office star, and measures up in poise, sense of humor, and healthy attitude. Ledger is also instantly philosophic about the attention.

Considering that the interview began on a hotel room balcony (with construction workers jackhammering nearby) then continued in the midst of The Patriot’s premiere party—where we were joined by Ledger’s dad Kim—it’s amazing that we were able to manage as in-depth a conversation as we did.

Eric Gladstone: OK Heath, let’s rock and roll.  So I realized after we first spoke that I’ve seen Blackrock.

Heath Ledger: Oh did you, how did you get, how did you see it?

E: Sundance. A couple of years ago, three years ago maybe. Never came out here did it, it’s a shame… So–what’s your wrist band say?

HL: Oh it’s, uh… Guilty. Someone just gave it to me, I don’t know where they got it from.

E: You’re 21?

HL: Yeah.

E: When’s your birthday, is it coming up?

HL: No its just been, April. 12th of April.

E: Happy Birthday, belated.

HL: Thanks.

E: You told me that you’re from Perth? Born and raised there?

HL: Yeah, till about sixteen.

E: And then where?

HL: I drove from Perth to Sydney, with my best mate, Trevor.

E:  Was there anything specific that prompted you to move to Sydney?

HL: No I just wanted to experience life. It was really about exploring life. And my job was a medium for me doing that, it was an excuse to get out and just do that.  And that’s all, I just wanted to get on that train that was flying past at ninety miles an hour.

E:  Did you finish school?

HL: Well I did my final year mark at a year early and then left.

E:  How long was it in Sydney before you got a gig?

HL: Like four months.  No it was only like two months.

E:  Was it hard, were you worried, were you nervous?

HL: No because… I didn’t even worry about it.  I didn’t think that I was going to be ending up here.  I didn’t have any expectations to end up here, so nothing was really hard about it, it was just living.  I just need to eat, so I needed to work, and that was my work.

Continued in part  2

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Heath Ledger Interview Part 2
By EC Gladstone

EG: What are your parents’ names, what do they do?

HL: Sally and Kim.  Kim Ledger is my dad. Dad’s in the engineering industry. He designed a crusher for mine sites.  And uh, he started a engineering company called Ledger Engineering. And he’s built and raced racing cars for the last 30 years.

EG: So what was growing up like, do you have any brothers and sisters?

HL: I have three sisters, one older, two younger.  All adorable.  What was my growing up like?  Fun, I loved it, you know, had so much fun.  Perth’s an amazing city to grow up in.  Yeah, it’s so relaxing and so chilled out. Very green, very blue.  It’s like, in between freeways there’s like manicured grass. It’s really a sweet, sweet city.

EG: So, what kind of kid were you?

HL: Same as I am now, I’m still a kid. Yeah I was very active, yeah, extremely.

EG: What kind of stuff?

HL: Everything from Australian rules football to hockey, rugby, tennis, cricket.  I did cricket to get out of the cadets at school.

EG: The what?

HL: Cadets. Which is, we had a military corps at school, and they taught 16 year old kids how to fire semi-automatic weapons and throw hand grenades. I didn’t find logic in that, so I played cricket instead, to get out of it.

EG: You got out of it by playing cricket?

HL: Yeah, because it happened to be the same day that they played their matches against other schools was the day that they trained and did their, you know, line ups and stuff.  Push-ups.

EG: Were you any good at it.

HL: Cricket?  I was OK, yeah, I was alright.

EG When did you decide you wanted to act.

HL: Can’t remember deciding. I just got into it, I just started doing little plays, and stuff like that. I really enjoyed it.

EG: Like in school?

HL: Yeah schools, and little outside amateur theatre companies and stuff and, I just loved it, loved it. And I just kept doing it, it was just a hobby, and uh, I blinked my eyes and I was getting paid.  And then, I just kept having fun and still am. That’s it.  Didn’t train.

EG: Tell me about your first acting role.  Peter Pan was it?

HL: I think so.  It was, yeah, I guess so.

EG: You played Peter Pan?

HL: Yeah. [laughs]

EG:  When was it you decided that you loved acting and wanted to do it?

HL: Um, I don’t know, I can’t remember, I just loved it, I just had so much fun with it.  And then I blinked my eyes and it was like, professional, and that was it, and I just kept following it, and doors kept opening and I just kept walking through them.  That’s it.  You know.

EG: A stroke of luck.

HL: Yeah, but you create your own luck, you know.  The doors are there but you got to go through them.

Continued in part  3

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Heath Ledger Interview Part 3
By EC Gladstone

EG: Where are you living now?

HL: Prague.

EG: Just wherever you’re laying your hat? No fixed address?

HL: No its true, yeah, no fixed address, I got bags.

EG: How’s Prague been?

HL: Oh it’s cool.  Yeah, it’s a beautiful city, I had no idea what it was going to be like before I got there. I hadn’t really looked into Prague ever before.  But it’s gorgeous, its one of the only cities that wasn’t touched during WWII, wasn’t bombed at all.  So it’s completely preserved. Buildings from the ninth century, you know.  It’s gorgeous.  Completely tourist-run, but it’s great, the beer’s great.  They’ve got amazing beer, it’s like 20 cents a beer, and that’s the most expensive beer.

EG: Coming from an Australian–you take your beer seriously there.

HL: Yeah, it’s a national sport.

EG: How long have you been there in Prague?

HL: Two and a half months.

EG: How much more have you got to go?

HL: Another two months.

EG: Long shoot.

HL: Yeah, I was there a month before shooting.  Rehearsals, and just getting to know the rest of the cast. Um, yeah it is a pretty long shoot, it’s a fun shoot, but I am working with this amazingly talented bunch of actors, and an extremely cool, laid back director, and amazing crew and, it’s just, it’s so much fun, it really is.  Hard work. Yeah, I’m in armor all the time.

EG: You’re in armor all the time?  What’s that like?

HL: Heavy, hot.

EG: Did they  have a suit made to fit you?

HL: Um, they do, but at the beginning of the movie, when I first start jousting, I’m wearing the armor of Sir Hector, which I was a squire to, and he dies and so I get in his outfit and pretend to be him. And from there, we kind of use his stuff for a while until we earn a bit of cash after we win a few jousts.  And then I get my good suit of armor.  But I haven’t got there yet. We’re shooting it sequentially, but we’re still in the crappy loose stuff that’s turning my vertebrae into shit.

EG: Tell me about jousting, what’s that like?

HL: Interesting. It’s fun, it’s wacky. They were fucking nut cases, I can’t believe they did it. You know, you’re charging on the back of a horse with this big fucking pole.  The stunt dudes are actually really hitting each other.  Like running into each other
with full power in the armor and just breaking the (makes sound like “whshew”) on their chest.  Crazy, yeah.  It’s just another wacky skill that I picked up, you know, along the line of horse riding and musket firing.

EG: I was going to say, you’re on horses again.

HL: I know, I know, I love my horse.

Continued in part  4

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Heath Ledger Interview
By EC Gladstone

EG: You were telling me when we met at ShoWest that you’d done horse riding before.

HL: Yeah, yeah.  I had done it before on a couple of jobs I had done previously, and I uh, I had done occasionally, you know with some friends and stuff like that.  Up here in the hills.  Up in Beachwood [Canyon], there’s a horse ranch up there.  Yeah, and it takes you all through the hills, and up through the Hollywood sign, and it takes you above Griffith Park, to the highest peak you can get up there.  And I had a friend who was working at the horse ranch, so every night, they’d shut down at six or seven.  We’d go out there, and you know, just jump on the horses and just ride through the night.  Through the paths, everywhere.  Yeah its cool, its beautiful.

EG: What do you like about it?

HL; About horse riding? Jeez, you know, its like, when you ride a motor bike, its kind of like that, except for you really feel like your riding something in the hills. You feel the power when you’re stroking your filly.  I don’t know what I like about it, it’s just fun I guess.  I don’t know if I’m going to buy a horse but…

EG: What do you do for fun these days? Do you get to do anything?

HL: I take photos.

EG: Of?

HL: People.

EG: In Prague?

HL: Oh yeah.  Loads in Prague, yeah, just can’t stop shooting in Prague.

EG: Just for fun or is it something you think you’d do sort of more
Seriously?

HL: Um, well it’s serious fun.

EG: More than just snapshots?

HL: Yeah, oh yeah, I got like, tons of cameras, and you know, I go through like 20 rolls of film a week. Which isn’t as much as the average photographer, but when you’re working six days a week, it’s quite a lot.

EG: Tell me about The Patriot and working with Mel.

HL: Um, it was a wonderful, wonderful experience in my life, it really was. I mean working with Mel really opened up a lot inside of me, in terms of discovering how to relax with oneself in your working environment. Keeping your head clear and—[to construction workers] fucking shut up! Christ—speaking of keeping your head clear!

EG: That was well timed.

HL: And, you know he’s such a gentleman, professionally and socially, he is really wonderful, and uh, you know that’s it. I mean, all the people- everyone on that movie, Roland and Dean were just fabulous. So chilled out, so relaxed.

EG:  When you first went up to the role were you nervous about working with Mel?

HL: I was, yeah, I couldn’t help but be nervous, you know it’s like Mel Gibson.  But he puts you at ease straight away, makes you laugh, smile, all that shit.

Continued in part  5

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EG: The story is that you walked out of the first audition.

HL: Yeah, I was doing a really crap reading, woke up on the wrong side of the bed, and I just, I was wasting my time, so I stood up and left, and said ‘I am extremely sorry and extremely embarrassed about doing a lousy job and I got to get out of here.’  And so I stood up, shook their hands and walked out. And I guess they just, were curious, you know rang back and said, ‘Hey come back and show us what you really can do then.’  And I was like ‘fuck!’

EG: Some people are sort of calling you the next Mel Gibson, potentially. How does that feel?

HL: I don’t know, it doesn’t feel anything. I don’t feel anything from it. You know it’s just what people call me, I guess, or have called me.  I don’t know, whatever. It would obviously be an honor, because he’s awesome. But, um, they’ve said that about everyone.

EG:  How would you compare your own relationship with your dad to your relationship with Mel in the film?

HL: Uh, I mean I took similar stands, but you know, my dad is like my best mate.  There are similar comparisons, but you know, only the cliché ones.

EG:  Your parents split up when you were young.

HL: Yeah when I was like ten, I guess.

EG:  Was that hard to deal with?

HL: No, it’s basically just so human, you know.  I’ve dumped out with my girlfriends in the past.  Same deal, bigger scale.

EG: What’s that from [pointing to a scab on his right index finger].

HL: That? That’s from…oh, I did this on an ax, on set. I peeled off a piece of skin. I’ve got a lot of battle scars lately from swords and shit. Sword fighting. Yeah, well there’s a lot of metal, you know, so you’re always chipping yourself and shit.

EG: So you’re looking to do something a little easier next time out?

HL: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah.

EG: I just watched Ten Things I Hate About You, which I thought came out really good.

HL: Did you?

E: Not as much like the Shakespeare as I thought it was going to be.

HL: Well, its not really Shakespeare.  It’s a loose adaptation.

EG: What was working with Julia Stiles like? I’m just about to interview her. It looked like you were having a lot of fun.

HL; Send her my love. Oh yeah, she was really great to work with.  You know, she’s a really smart girl.  She’s really smart, gorgeous, extremely level headed. She just has such a lovely wisdom about her, with her art, with her craft.  In life, in general, she has such wisdom. In a deep way, not like out of a book, she’s got it together in her head and her heart.

Continued in part  6

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E: Keri Russell I also might be talking with soon.  And uh, you did Roar with her, right?  Which I’ve actually never seen.

HL: Yeah, not a lot of people did [laughs… then spills out an entire box of matches trying to light his cigarette] You have no idea, I spill shit, I drop matches, I break glasses like you would not believe.

E: Are you clumsy?

HL: Oh yeah, hopelessly clumsy. Julia’s great, I had so much fun working with her.  And Keri, she’s a sweet, sweet girl.  Yeah.

E:  After 10 Things, you turned down a lot of roles.  Anything you regret turning down?

HL: No.

E: It was about a year?

HL: Over a year.

E:  You were just sort of confident throughout the whole thing?

HL: Not at all! It was, I would rather do nothing than do something I was unhappy with. I would do a bad job. I learned, I get bored really easy.

E:  What did you do with your time?  Did you have jobs?

HL: No, I just sat around, hung out with mates, took loads of photos, that was it.

E:  Do you want to do something with the photos someday?

HL: No…uh maybe, I don’t know.  For now, they’re just gifts.

E: What about personal life now, do you get any of it?

HL: Do I get any of it?

E: Do you have one?

HL: Of course I do, everyone does, you know, to some degree.  Oh, God yeah, I, you know. I seem to think I live in it all the time.  Actually. Don’t you?

E: Well, not when I’m at the office.

HL: This isn‘t your personal life?

E: No, would that it was.

HL: So you’re not thinking personally?

E: No, because if I was thinking personally, I would probably just be having a chat with you, because you seem like a really nice guy.

HL: You can do that.

E: Yeah, but I can’t because I’m under the gun time-wise.

HL: That’s alright

E:  And I’ve got ask you things like… ‘Have you read anything interesting lately?’

HL: I have, actually. I read this book by Dan Millman, called The Way Of The Peaceful Warrior. And it says on the book, ‘a book that will change your life.’ And it does, it will. It’s really amazing.

E: How so?  What’s it about?

HL; It’s quite, it’s very Zen-orientated.  You know, it’s very metaphorical.  It’s the true story, he was like a world gymnastics champion, and he meets this old man at a service station one night, who he names Socrates.  And he visits him for like years and years and he ends up having this relationship with him for like ten years, and he teaches him about fundamentals of his brain and his heart and his soul. And its very deep and its about loosening up and not letting anything get to your head, and uh, being very conscious about everything you do.  About, if you light a cigarette, concentrate on lighting that cigarette, and concentrate on doing this, and, you know, don’t lose track of your thoughts. It’s a great book, really great book.

Continued in part  7

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